Tritone, Augmented 4, Diminished 5

[tedclaymore]

Hi,

I've just started using EM5 School, starting with myself before I start my students.

I've noted that the Tritone is always spelled as a diminished 5, even when an augmented 4 spelling would be more apropriate.

I realize this is more 'theory' than 'ear training', but to my mind they are intimately linked. This alone gives me pause as far as using this with my students (most of whom come to me for theory).

I am concerned that this practice may extend to other enharmonic intervals, but I'm not far enough along in the tutors to have seen whether or not this is true.

Please consider correcting this in an update or new version.

-- Ted

[Quentin]

Hello,
If you use EarMaster with the staff, you will see that dimished 5th and augmented 4th are both used according to the context. On the guitar interface though, a C will remain a C and won't be marked as Dbb for instance.

If diminished 5th is used instead of augmented 4th, it's must be an isolated mistake and we would be happy to know where (in which exercise) it happens so that we could correct it with the next update.

I hope you will find EarMaster satisfactory on its other aspects and will be very thankful to obtain your feedback once you will have had the time to use it extensively.

[tedclaymore]

I don't want to be argumentative, but the explanation of Interval Identification Lesson 19 of the Standard Tutor alone betrays that the augmented 4th is not being considered:

The new intervals are: Minor 2nd, Minor 3rd and Diminished 5th.

There is no mention of the augmented 4th. Granted it is the same sound as a dim5, but it is not spelled the same way.

In the exercise itself, I have just captured a screen shot of a dim5 answer to a tritone in the key of C going from F to Cb (and the resulting accidental in an exercise that is supposed to be completely diatonic). This should be an Aug4 going from F to B. I don't have an aug 4th button, just a dim 5th button. (I could happily live with a button labeled "Tritone" or "Aug 4th / Dim 5th" as long as the staff behavior is correct when this answer is given.)

This is the case everywhere within the interval identification exercise that an aug4 could show up, starting at 19 and continuing to the last exercise, ascending, descending, and harmonically.

Elsewhere in EM5, the documentation goes to pains to explain why double flats are sometimes needed to spell an interval correctly, so the lack of Aug 4 surprises me.

I don't currently have a good location to upload the screen-shot, but I'd be happy to email it to someone at EM to show the point. Please let me know where to send the screen-shot.

Also, when setting up a custom exercise, there is no option for aug 4th.

In any case, this doesn't seem to be an isolated bug, but rather it seems to be a missed requirement or a different philosophy on how to approach theoretically ambiguous (enharmonic) intervals.

For what it's worth, I am using the staff, guitar, and buttons for answer input. I am typically using the buttons.

Finally, Quentin, I want to be precise... you said:

If diminished 5th is used instead of augmented 4th, it's must be an isolated mistake and ...

... but as I said in my initial post it is the other way around... EM5 is not using Aug4 anywhere (at least not in the interval identification exercises), and dim 5 is used everywhere.

-- Ted

[Hans]

Dear Ted,

The focus in EarMaster is to exercise your ear. As one interval can have different names (e.g. Aug 4th and Dim 5th), it can be confusing for the user if they have to consider that also. Therefore we decided to include only one name for each interval. This also applies to the minor 2nd, minor 3rd, minor 6th and minor 7th intervals, though the conflict is most common with Aug4th/Dim5th.

To be theoretical correct it has to transcribe the Dim5th from F as F-Cb and not the more obvious F-B. EarMaster will however accept F-B as the correct answer.

I agree that the handling of the enharmonic intervals can be improved in EarMaster and we would like to do that in the next version of EarMaster.

One solution could be to include both the Aug 4th and the Dim 5th as individual intervals on the list of intervals. This still allows a teacher to select a specific notation of the interval. However, if both intervals are selected, EarMaster will automatically choose the one that fits better in the situation (based on the key and how it fits the diatonic tones).

Best regards,
Hans Jakobsen
EarMaster

[tedclaymore]

Thank you, Hans. Your explanation makes sense.

I look forward to improved handling of enharmonic intervals in future versions.

Your suggestion for handling the Aug 4 vs. Dim 5 would be satisfactory. My own practice is to simply name the interval 'tritone' in isolation, and call it Aug 4 or Dim 5 in context. (...And even then I sometimes prefer 'tritone', such as for a chromatic passage.)

I'll continue to work with EM5. Your response reassures me that my concerns are taken seriously.

Thank you,

-- Ted